Letter to Sir/Mr. Ferguson
By: Corey | October 30th, 2008This is some more user-driven content for you, this time from a first time commentor who impressed us all with this lengthy post, a response to Ole Whiskey Nose’s rather out of line comments towards Real Madrid and their pursuit of Cristiano Ronaldo. I didnt ask his permission to put this up, because I dont know who he is, but thanks to Madridista from a Real Madrid fan site found here. Enjoy!
Hi guys,
Greetings from a madridista in the U.S. As you may be aware Alex Ferguson has recently linked again the history of Real Madrid to the dictatorial regime of Francisco Franco. Nobody from the Real Madrid executive board or PR department (if such a department exists within the club) has taken the necessary steps to respond to this extremely offensive accusations. This is not the first time that Ferguson tries to tarnish Real Madrid legendary history with fake facts regarding the relationship between Franco’s regime and Real Madrid. But at fansdelrealmadrid.com they are trying to set the record straight and make well-known in as many places as possible, the real history of Real Madrid:
Dear Mr. Ferguson,
We fans of Real Madrid -I believe there are several millions around the world- opened the papers yesterday to see that you had got it wrong, once again. Not unlike many Spanish liberal journalists, you awoke Francisco Franco from the grave to make the headlines once again. One would think that the General’s exploits have no end, at least for his bitter enemies – the rest of the world have sent him where he belongs, to history books. It’s unfortunate that your many responsibilities probably haven’t left you time to read some of those books, since they would have saved embarrassment for you and dismay for us.In the interview I’m referring to, you were speaking about Cristiano Ronaldo and how poorly Real Madrid had behaved, but suddenly, voilá, there’s Franco popping his head again (it wasn’t the first time you tried to link him to Real). These were your exact words as published in The Times on Oct. 28, 2008: “What made it really obscene was that Madrid, as General Franco’s club, had a history of being able to get whoever and whatever they wanted, before democracy came to Spain.” And obscene it is indeed. Too bad it’s an outright lie.
Allow me Mr. Ferguson to inform you of the facts, as I’m sure a distinguished man as you will appreciate the gift of knowledge: There’s never been any respected author or journalist able to establish even a marginal relationship between Real Madrid and Franco’s regime. Furthermore, to the surprise of many, it can be claimed that Franco’s government was harmful to Real Madrid’s interests on several occasions, especially due to our president’s Santiago Bernabéu less-than friendly relationship with the regime. It’s my pleasure to offer you three well-documented articles from the ongoing series “Whiter than you think – Addressing Real Madrid’s black legend”, running on this very site (Chapter one, two and three). I’m sure you’ll find it delicious reading, even if it breaks down all of your misconceptions. But allow me to briefly debunk three of the most popular myths:
1) Real Madrid was incredibly successful during -and thanks to- Franco’s regime. False. During the first 14 years of the General’s mandate (arguably the most strict and propaganda-heavy period), Real Madrid won… zero Spanish national competitions! In the same period, Barcelona and Atlético Aviación (known as Atlético de Madrid these days) raised the trophy on several occasions. It’s interesting to note that the latter club was directly sponsored by the army, nurturing its ranks from players who should have been in the military service. In later years, Madrid and Barça’s national successes were quite even, as can be easily checked.
2) Real Madrid “stole” Di Stéfano from Barça. Absolutely false. The truth is that the player’s rights were hold by two different teams, and Barça refused to negotiate (and pay) to one of them (Millonarios of Bogotá), while Real Madrid did negotiate with the Colombian team. Since neither Madrid nor Barça owned Di Stéfano completely, an independent mediator decided the player would belong to both clubs alternately, but Barcelona preferred to sell their rights to Real Madrid (getting a profit). It was Barcelona’s poor negotiating skills which led Di Stéfano to Real Madrid (complete story here).
3) Barcelona was badly treated by Franco’s government. Once again, completely false. Not only did Barça have notable national success -it wasn’t Franco’s fault that they were unable to win any of their European finals-, but it’s well documented that they received generous help from the regime in at least four occasions: The signing of Hungarian ace Kubala (bypassing several laws of the time) and the legal status change of estate owned by Barcelona on three occasions, resulting in enormous profits for the club. Barça felt so “mistreated” that they conceded two medals to the dictator, the last one as late as in 1974!
Almost everything else regarding the Madrid-Franco relationship is pure defamatory false material, not-so-innocently spread by Real’s haters, but don’t worry, Mr. Ferguson – our top men may have chosen not to defend the club, but its fans will make the truth known. We’ve mostly had a golden and exemplary history, the true stuff of legend, and we want to make it known world-wide. We can assure you that Real has very little to hide.
Your complains that Real Madrid president (Ramón Calderón) and executive board behaved poorly on the Cristiano case: Fair enough, many madridistas think exactly the same, but that gives no one right to try and tarnish the history of the most laureate club in the world. Yes, Calderon may be a disaster, but he will soon be forgotten. You, on the other hand, are living history of Manchester United, and knight of the British Empire, and as such should put some care in your words, being very much the image of your club. Instead, you preferred to use your fame and prestige to try and pass bogus, uninformed arguments as facts, only to vent your anger at the men who tried to take a player away from you. Not exactly what would have been expected from a man of such high reputation. Trying to spoil Real Madrid image, you have only damaged Manchester’s. If Manchester United most representative public figure doesn’t think twice before insulting a club and making a fool of himself, what can we think of ManU as an institution? But we don’t want to commit the same mistake as you did- we think Manchester United is a great club -it’s just that some of their employees -no matter how important- on occasions just aren’t able to match its greatness.
Sincerely,
Fans del Real Madrid Blog
While I agree with a few of his sentiments here, I think its a little rash to say Barca were treated kindly by Franco. But all in all its a very good commentary on the situation. Ramon Calderon had this to say to Marca, “I’m not going to waste any time answering him, I admire his record, but he is getting old.”
Not exactly what I would like to see from the club president. And how old is old here? Calderon is 57, while Fergie is 66. A ten year difference sure, but when you get up that high, isnt it all relevant? Needless to say, yet more unneed media chatter surrounding the club.
Category: Team News
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Worse than that Corey, there’s a huge amount of controversy in Spain over Calderón’s alleged misuse of club money for personal purposes. There’s a press conference at 19:00 local time today in which it’s expected he’ll answer those allegations. If you want some background, check out my blog, as I’ve just published an item about it.
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Hey man, no problem. Thanks for posting the whole thing. And as Gonzalo says, things are looking quite embarrassing for Mr. Calderon right now.
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well calderon is well known to be suffering from FIMS-foot in mouth syndrome , so it ain’t really all that a big news for him to say. this instance was still better than the gaffes he has been credited with in the past. caldo has learned the art of subtlety nd insinuations . it seems.
coming from a family of strong catalan nationalists and football fanatics, i have heard quite a lot of diatribes against franco , his regime , real madrid and how we are top only because of favorable treatment by them.i personally think that the only team who had to cop a lot were bilbao. if he was really out to get barca, the regime could have done a lot worse to the club that calls itself ‘more than a club’. and what has been said above is also true. barca got what was seen as an obscene amount of money at the time when they sold di stefano’s rights to us and were gleeful at the thought of coming out tops over us when don alfredo flopped miserably in his first few games.when the alternate arrangement came out , barca and their president Marti Carreto at first agreed to it.but this created so much controversy that carreto had to resign and the interim board then scrapped the agreement and sold us the complete rights. before di stefano came to spain , barca had tried to bully millionarios into an agreement because of which they baulked. and river plate had said barca could have the player if millionarios decided to sell him to them, which they didn’t. so technically barca never owned the player.our dominance didn’t come because of any alleged help by franco and his government. yes , he was a supporter but that also only in name. the reason for our dominance was the superb leadership of Don Santiago Bernabeu. when the civil war ended we were essentially a dead club. we didn’t receive a peseta of government help in rebuilding. Atletico Madrid were the establishment club and barca and bilbao had far stronger teams than ours. infact when we built our current stadium , it was said that it was ‘too much a stadium for so little a club’.we rose from the ashes of the civil war due to the the combined efforts of the socios. so i find it highly insulting when idiots like alex ‘rednose’ ferguson belittle their work by saying that we are top dogs because of franco.
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As I’ve been saying since I started posting on this blog, the worst thing we have going for us at the moment is our “President”, who never seems to be able to keep his mouth shut. He’s the reason we’ve bought many players at inflated prices, because he keeps saying that he wants everybody at Madrid, inflating the price on all our targets
The other thing, he hasn’t delivered on any of his campaing promises: Kaka and Cesc, can’t remember if that a-hole C Ronaldo was promised, but anyways, he should’ve known better as to offer something and not deliver, because fans were used to Florentino delivering the goods, and this only made him look like a liar and as somebody who couldn’t deliver what the promised
Ann finally, I’ve been reading information of Calderon’s shady transactions with tickets and VIP packages of the club, through a relative of his who runs a company in wich Calderon has a stake, so if he’s having a press conference, it must be serious. If it’s true, and he was using the club’s assets for personal gain, he should go; if not, let it be a warning, and try to be more careful about it
Take care everybody
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I, too, wish Calderon would learn to shut his mouth. If he was going to respond in any kind to Fergusun’s idiotic statement, I feel it should have included a reminder of the severity that is implied by linking a club, or anyone for that matter, to Franco. Considering how many people died under his orders, it’s an insult to those who suffered to bring up his name in regaurd to something as trivial as the transfer policies of a football club, especially given that it’s either an uneducated assumption, or a fabricated assault.
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Barca fan herem yes im on ur forum i dont care.
well when you are forced to speak only spanish and the only place you could speak catalan freely without fear is the camp nou, you can imagine why people would may feel a little more dislike. perhaps i may be blinded by my learnings as i wasnt alive, and obviously there are 2 sides to the story. but i know the 1970 pitch invasion wasnt for no reason. the match as filled with all kinds of bad decisions in favour of madrid. but that isnt why the fans invaded. it more had to do with a release valve for years of of oppression.
Answer these following questions:
1) Which team was threatened by General Franco’s men in their dressing room before a game and was forced to blow a match by an 11-1 margin. I’ll make this one multiple choice for u…was it a). Barca or b). Real Madrid
2)Who was behind the coupe that saw Alfredo Di Stefano go to Real as opposed to Barca where he was initally destined. Multiple choice again. Was it a) General Franco or b) Atilla the Hun
3) Wasn’t this Di Stefano person a key part of Madrid’s early dominance of Europe
4) if questions 1 and 2 point to a direct relationship between Franco and Madrid, then is Fergie wrong to accuse the club of having a “tainted” history.
5) if Franco is linked to bringing Di Stefano across, and Di stefano is linked to Madrid’s success, then isn’t Franco partly responsible for MAdrid’s success. But then I guess in your world 1 and 1 makes 11 and not 2 doesn’t it.
U know, I’m not from Spain, barely speak spanish let alone catalan, so I won’t pretend to have all the facts. But if i go out seeking information on this subject and doing research why is it that all or most non-biased articles I read point to this same Madrid-Franco relationship. See the following examples
http://www.madrid-guide-spain.com/real-madrid-history.html
http://ezinearticles.com/?Real-Madrid—a-Brief-History&id=76119And i just googled this in 2 minutes, but then one can’t always beleive what they read on the internet now can they?? Listen to some quotes from these articles: and these I suppose are from unbiased sources
The start of the clubs success really came under the Franco regime – he saw the club as an excellent propaganda vehicle and poured resource into the club to try to make them a dominating force in Spain and beyond. It is from this point that one of the greatest rivalries in football was born with Catalan club Barcelona. The suppression of the Catalan language and culture by Franco’s regime immediately put Barcelona in opposition to Madrid, the team who seemed to represent the dictator’s regime and some unsavoury match fixing incidents further soured relationships and made the rivalry all the more fierce.
U guys can laugh up Fergie all u want, but the truth is out there and while he did rant unnecessarily, theres no denying that there is some truth to his comments. Now I know the truth hurts u Madridistas but do u guys really think that with so many people already hating your club, that u would now want to take on one of world football’s most respected figures…calling him scenile among other insults. U know I’m all in favour of seeing the demise of Real Madrid, but I’d much rather it be at the hands of Barca as opposed to Fergie. Baltter and Platini may be on your side, but a more powerful force is on Fergie’s side in this one….THE FANS.
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Just heard about Ruben collapsing on the pitch. Hope its nothing serious and thats his gonna be okay. I heard its nothing serious just low sugar but its really worrying when players collapse. Lets just hope that he is okay.
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Barcafan19: I understand that you don’t like Real Madrid. But you are fueling fires of cultural tension that you do not, and can not understand. Googling a couple random articles on the internet is not sufficient evidence in this arguement. It is true, Franco did pick Real Madrid as a part of his propoganda machine, but Real Madrid had no choice in the matter. It is important to distinguish the difference between the people controlled by a fascist and the fascists themselves: Real Madrid was never a fascist club, they were a club under a fascist’s rule, as were Barcelona and every other club, every other business, every other household in Spain during a horribly dark period of their history.
Why do you feel it’s necessary to bring up these horrible times, just because of allegiance to a football club that you support? The same applies to Sir Alex Fergusun.
Enough of that. I heard the same about De la Red, and I’m truly concerned. They say he’s fine, but still…
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Barca fan: You may believe that Franco had a hand in the Di Stefano transfer you are sadly mistaken. As stated in the article I posted, the dispute was over a payment to Milinarios, who co-owned the player with River Plate. After a third party decided that he be shared by the two teams, Barca decided they could not share the player with their rival and sold him to Real. I dont see how Franco influenced that, and as you have said you dont have much of a knowledge of the topic, so I find your opinion completely unreliable.
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Also the reason why us Madrid fans are so outraged is because Fergusons comments are incredibly hypocritical, considering his teams position in England where they strong arms teams into selling their players, like Berbatov, Carrick or Van der Sar. Or an even better example, how they unsettled Owen Hargreaves from Bayern Munich when they wanted him, and Uwe Houness blasted Manchester for their actions in the move. Or do we so often forget? No one team is clean in their transfer dealings, yet Real is always chastised. Double standard???
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First i hope no one take my respond as Fans Vs fans useless attacks.
Corey, i think its too late for me to comment here, but i think you are building your story based on certain resources you “picked” because it suits you, So I will not get into this aimless debate, though you mention some interesting phrases here:
1)”During the first 14 years of the General’s mandate (arguably the most strict and propaganda-heavy period), Real Madrid won… zero Spanish national competitions!”
Why interesting? because no dictator will have enough time to Raise a football club in the first period of his regime, You mentioned that in that period it was other teams who won trophies, so i wonder how it happened that the mentioned teams Collapsed while RM boosted out of no where not only to win domestic titles but to rule the world.2) on Di stefano case “an independent mediator decided the player would belong to both clubs alternately, but Barcelona preferred to sell their rights to Real Madrid (getting a profit).” well as a guy who have been traveling enough to notice how dictatorships work, i can understand what the “independent mediator” means, its more like “hey boy come and cover our sh**” , May be living in USA where “Capitals dictatorship” is too smart to show how things work in such regimes make you miss lead by those old tricks used by traditional Dictatorships.
3) Obviously “that” Di stefano was a key in RM success which make me imagine how it would have been if he was playing beside Kubala.
4)”Barça felt so “mistreated” that they conceded two medals to the dictator, the last one as late as in 1974!” Again, sorry to tell you corey (or may be its ur good luck), You don’t have a clue about how dictatorship mechanism work, including the “bloody make ups” and the washing fakes like real estates and stuff, and this will take long to explain so i will keep it there. Just a final note, Dictator try first to attract, if failed, they attack.
“Almost everything else regarding the Madrid-Franco relationship is pure defamatory false material”
well this is a phrase said by you Corey, a well educated fan who I am sure know that this team was originally called – in that era “Real Madrid Cf del Franco”, now I can understand the long term propaganda (including books) issued to cover that fact, I understand it make people forget, and may be thats a smart thing that he just get ride of all the effects of that dark period and look to the future, but thats how we must do so ” admit and plan a new start”, not doing the same typical action powerfull sides do, and that is changing the facts of history to fakes.
May be it wasnt the right thing of Man UTD coach to say so, but there is a big deference between saying he was not right to say so, and saying it wasnt right. may be thats why unlike u, corey, Maraca and Calderon didnt actually denied what was said but attacked who said it.
Its enough that RM Board say “we refuse to be labeled as franco club and we don’t accept ethically lot of things that happened during that period” so i raise my hat for them, they still don’t do so and even sing what show how proud they are of that era, so I think there is no case to be discussed but may be a truth to be covered. (sorry for long comment)
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Corey, are you seriously using that ill-informed Merenguista screed as your source on the “truth” of the Di Stefano story?
Do you really not know what Bernabeu did and about the the role of the RFEF (which was strongly influenced by the government)?
Take a look at this, for instance: http://www.thinkspain.com/news-spain/9835
It is a highly complicated situation about which we were are very unlikely to ever know the truth (as is the case with many aspects of the “Franco legacy”), but the version in that posting is a simplistic joke.
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Ramzi, your entitled to your opinion, but as you are a Barca fan, you have a slant just like I do. My sources include several Spanish history classes I have taken in school, as well as my primary source on the Di Stefano situation, Phil Ball, who I find to be a very unbiased journalist. You can throw around facts stating Real was a puppet of the General, and I can counter with facts that say no. There is no definitive answer here.
Then again, do we hold other clubs so accountable for events in the past beyond their control as Real Madrid? Real is viewed as the “Evil Empire” by so many because of the Franco years, even though since then they have nothing but distance themselves from this. I find no truth in Ferguson’s statement that Real were Franco’s team, seeing as how Atletico changed their name and employed army/air force as players. I cant understand how people still get caught up over these things that happened in the past. These political leanings were not my reasons for supporting the team, and they never will be.
ursus- as you have tried so hard in the past to demonstrate that you are the master of European history, how can anyone disagree with you? There is a certain shade of grey in everything, but the fact is that Barca sold the player when they could have shared him, so how can there be complaints? Its no different then modern transfers where two teams are in negotiations, and a third party has a share in the players registration. The two teams cant agree a fee plus compensation to that third party, so another team comes in with a bumper offer and gets the player.
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Corey I am not here to score points if thats what you think but to show the other face of the story, there are things we cant close our eyes and say thats past, or else we will encourage some other sick dictators to do it again, You base your belief for example on Spanish history classes you intended but the question is “Who write history?” simply the victorious, right? There were those who were defeated in that unbalanced fight (not necessarily the ones who were wrong), and in Spain thats a trend starting from the Maya catastrophe to the written Andalusia history (Spanish version) where if you check the national library in Rome you will find historical – original- documents that will make you shocked, so I really suggest – as a side not- that you go there if you had a chance, I really respect how Italians protected these treasures and there are instructors that who even explain things.
I am not saying RM are accountable for events in the past, definitely not, and who is the Naive who will say close that club and get ride of it, as a Barcelona fan I cant enjoy the liga without the biggest rival, thats a fact no fan with common sense can deny, so You may get surprised if you figured out how much I really like having this RM vs Barcelona competition, and if you are following the liga since long enough – and I am sure you do – you already know that the only time the liga is exciting when the two clubs are on the pole position to compete, so before being a Barcelona fan, I am a football fan.
What I cant accept the unclear position of the “New RM” in this issue, and actually they did NOTHING to distance themselves from this, unless if they mentioned something I dont know, silence is not a sign of being distinct but a sign of unwillingness to clarify, and you still can find the hire of franco philosophy between the Socis and in the stadiums.
Sports is more than just kicking a ball to the net, so for me other things , aside of sports issues, play a part when i choose a team to support, when in a classico I know that the fans of the first team are singing the poems of a poet who was killed by Franco gangs and the fans of the other team making the singing slogans of franco era (even if just to tease, its not that hard for a simple person like me to make a choice) Sports is also about creating a model and sending the right message.Now I am not saying Barcelona community is perfect, I am not a socis myself and have my good reasons for that(I think), so even as a Barcelona fan I can be objective enough to see the full image, or at least to try (Some Barcelona fans criticized my opinions about Barcelona even on this blog/Barcelona page).
The way you tell the Di stefano story, negotiation while having a cup of coffee…sealing a deal with a smile on the face, like modern football, u missed a major part, there was a gun aimed to the head, oh I forgot…you don’t believe franco was that bloody…But September 11 is not a date for new catastrophe only in USA, there was an older version in Catalonia.
Give me a dictator in history who had no favorite team in his country and I will Surrender to your point, so either you think Franco was unique, or may be he was a fan for the Catalan club.
Regarding Kubala, this is what is written in the RM website:
“Kubala’s failed signing
In 1948, Real Madrid underwent a radical renewal of their squad. Two years later, they tried to sign Ladislao Kubala, who had arrived in Spain with his then team Hungaria. Negotiations were called off because the player wanted to include his brother-in-law, Fernando Daucik, as coach in the deal and Bernabéu did not comply.”Thanx for that Barcelona were able to have him? (even though i don’t take that story seriously, the same as the story that Franco sweetheart that is full of love helped Barcelona to sign the guy)
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Corey, even Ball’s account (in a Real Madrid-endorsed history of the club) doesn’t support the Cliff Notes version of the Di Stefano story in the post (actually, Cliff Notes wouldn’t take such a simplified and one-sided summary).
And if the club really had done “nothing but distance themselves from this since” there wouldn’t have been multiple stands selling Falangist memorabilia around the Bernabeu well into the 90s (let alone during the period at question). And let’s not talk about the UltraSur.
I’ve been at the Bernabeu on Franco’s birthday (for a game against Athletic, as it so happens). It wasn’t pretty.
It doesn’t mean that you would have supported Franco, or that every Merengue does or did. And it doesn’t have anything to do with the validity of your support (which I respect and admire), but it is part of the history of the club and the country.
We all have aspects of those histories that we don’t agree with and aren’t proud of, but denying that they exist doesn’t make them go away.
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I dont deny they exist, I simply state that associate the club with such things is completely short sided considering the modern world in which we live in. All clubs have ultra supporters, whatever political party they support or fallen dictator they swear to. But I for one will not stand here and have people accuse my club of being the club of a terrible man that set Spain back so many years because that is not what I believe.
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I wish the world was as “modern” as your statement implies (and hope very much that it will be significantly more modern after midnight PST on Tuesday night), but I’m afraid that we’ll never fully agree. And as we’ve both observed, finding the objective historical truth about many of these issues is likely impossible.
But as I said before, I respect and admire your love for the club. And I appreciate your engaging without resorting to name calling.
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Name calling is not needed, this is a grown ups discussion, then again saying Obama being elected will improve things globally is far from sensible…
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i agree with with you , corey. as a catalan i am not a fan of franco but as a real madrid die-hard i find it insulting that people still try to sully our name with that __(insert all expletives you can think of). if the regime held a gun to their heads , wasn’t this true for us too ??could we have survived if we had said , oh screw you generalisssimo.franco didn’t ask hey , u guys got any problem with me becoming your fan ??we didn’t have an option when they decided to associate themselves with us.
people keep saying that di stefano’s transfer was forced by the regime. the agreement with river plate was that if millionarios sold him to barca. this didn’t happen after samitier and busquets got involved. so going on this line, we were the ones who bought him clean as we paid both river and millionarios. and before anyone forgets , barca did have the option of having him for 2 years which they let go off. this didn’t happen because of the regime. it happened because marti carreto was forced out and the interim board decided to sell.
di stefano was a key player for us but at the same time we had a team that is ,in my opinion, the greatest ever assembled. puskas , gento , di stefano , rial , santamaria, kopa , didi, mateos and the others. so to keep parroting the line that we were the best just because of franco is not a intelligent thing to do. i said this earlier and i will say it again. it is an undisputed fact that we didn’t receive a peseta of goverment help in the rebuilding after the civil war.our rebuilding happened due to the efforts of the socios under the leadership of don bernabeu. so it is an insult to all of them and us when someone credits our success to that hijo de puta franco.
Posted from
United States
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