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By: Corey | May 21st, 2008I had a very interesting comment on a post that I wanted to share with everyone and write a proper rebuttal to. I feel its pretty important an issue to state my opinion in a more formal manner than in the comments section. Here is the original comment from Mat:
Why cant[sic] Real Madrid scout, find, nurture and make Ronaldos and Zidane rather than just buying finished products and using them…this is by far the worst big team in that sense…just because you guys have money does not mean that you don’t need to have a youth system in place.. look at Ajax, Lyon, United, Arsenal, Barca!..I think that is what football is about and Real in my opinion fail miserably.
While a casual observer of any sport or any team can make some obvious observations, some times issues are more than just at the surface level. This is a disclaimer that what I say in this article is my opinion and not the law so you can disagree, but lets keep the banter objective. Thank you.
First off I will point out a common false truth in footall. That Manchester United, Ajax, Arsenal, Lyon and Barca have such good youth systems that they rely solely on them and thats where there success stems from. Arsenal for one buys young players and puts them in its academy, which is a round about way of doing it, while Man U’s youth often end up playing in the lower league of English football. Lyon often promotes players for the sole purpose of selling them for great profits, but they release 5 or so players a season from their reserve squad because they dont find a need for them in the first team. Ajax has had a miserable time when it comes to using almost solely its academy graduates while Barca’s best youth team products were either foriegn players they brought in early on or bought from other smaller teams. This is not to say Real do not do the same, I agknowledge they do it, if not more, than Barcelona or Ajax or Arsenal.
But when you consider what Mat questioned, you must take into account so many different factors when shaping an answer that I can guarentee what I come up with will not be complete. But I can break it down into a few main points, the first being expectations/pressures. Of course there is much more to it then that, but the biggest factor when it comes to nurturing young talent is the weight of expectations on the big clubs of Europe these days. The prevelance of the media heightens the level of expectation and hence the pressure on big teams. So there is a great reluctance blood youngsters because they do not have the qualities needed to win necessarily as often time older players with a few campaigns under their belt or younger players who have been trusted to play many games at their club.
Because Real is expected to win every game and every trophy, how does a manager experiment with formations or give a chance to a youngster that could prove to be a weakness for the team until he comes up to speed with the professional game. This is true not only at Real but every big club in Europe. The clubs listed, Ajax, Lyon, United, Arsenal, Barca are a mixed bag when it comes to blooding youngsters but the expectations are all the same, win all the time. What categorizes a team as a big European team seems to be arbitrary, if unless we would go with consistent winning. So that is what we will go on.
Over the past ten years or so, certain do seem to dominate their prospective leagues. So when I discuss big teams, I will give you a list of what I believe are big teams.
Spain: Real Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Atletico Madrid
Italy: AC and Inter Milan, Juventus, Roma
France: Lyon, Marseille, PSG
England: Manchester United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool
Holland: PSV, Feyenoord, Ajax
Portugal: Porto, Benfica, Sporting Lisboa
Germany: Bayern Munich, Schalke, Hamburg, Werder Bremen
Russia: CSKA Moscow, Lokomotiv Moscow, Dinamo Moscow
Ukraine: Shaktar Donetsk, Dinamo Kiev
Belgium: Anderlecht
Denmark: FC Copenhagen
Norway: Rosenborg
Sweeden: FC Lyn Oslo
Scotland: Celtic, Rangers
Croatia: Dinamo Zagreb, Hajduk Split
Czech Republic: Sparta and Slavia Prague
Turkey: Galatassary, Besitkas, Fenerbahce
etc. etc. etc. Theres some big teams in their prospective leagues which may or may not be respresented in European play. These are the teams that are usually in the running for the title every year and have been for decades
typically
.
If you look at these teams, I can confidently say that they all follow a similar standard. They all have very well respected youth academies for the most part, but they all do their fair share of buying either domestic or foreign players of very degress of skill, experience etc. But the formula is all of the same at these clubs, look at the youth team to see what youve got then look to the transfer market. All clubs do it, otherwise they wouldnt have academies.
The problem lies in the fact that not all the players in these acadamies are good enough to play for their teams, whether it be at first or ever. Real Madrid has one of the best acadamies in the world, and it usually has two to three players in the first team every year. Whether these players go on to long and glorious careers with the club is up to chance as much as ability. But Real puts money in its youth system and it sees a reward. Raul, Guti, Casillas, Soldado, Torres, Balboa and Codina are all apart of the first team this past year and played for junior divisions of Real. 7 players isnt bad, thats 6 more than Inter can boast, or 5 more than Chelsea (although Scott Sinclair was bought at 18 from Bristol), while it isnt far off from Bayern Munich at 9 or Lyon at 11 (although 2 are on loan). Sporting and Rosenborg I believe have the most homegrown players in their first team, but the rest of the clubs average 5-8 players.
Now you can argue that not all of the players start, or play at all, or are listed in the first team but play with the reserves still. Which brings me back to Real Madrid. Raul, Guti and Casillas play almsot every game, while Torres has been a utility player across the back for two seasons now. Soldado has fallen away a bit as well as Balboa, while Codina played his first game agaisnt Levante, and could be the #2 next year. That is not bad for me, and with Real bringing in three players from its youth setup next year that were playing in La Liga this year and did very well.
And there is a very good chance that 1 or 2 will get promoted during the summer as well, with a few other youth team players going out on loan. Real does spend heavily in the transfer market, but barring Cristiano Ronaldo signing for us this summer, I do not forsee much spending. This brings me to another point. Because of the pressure, coaching and management turnover is often high at most of these clubs. So the players each coach/management want often change with them, which is how clubs like Real, Barca, Inter, Liverpool, Chelsea, Bayern Munich, Ajax, Porto, and Marseille often end up spending heavily.
Purchases often are thought of the best way to guarentee quick results, and that is clear with Real Madird. After a crappy few years, Capello overhauled the squad to win a title, then Schuster overhauled it to win another in a different style. Inter have a owner who is not afaird to spend, but the coach often takes advantage of that, and gets all the players he wants. If a coach had the ability to bring in great players no matter the expense and craft a team he say fit, wouldnt he? Or would he so no thank you, I will work with what I have got. That rarely happens anymore, and althought philosophies differ between Rafa Benitez buying everything that walks but often leaving youth team players behind to Arsene Wenger buying 16 year old boys to develop in his own mold and use in the future to Carlo Ancelotti buying old timer has beens and ignoring his youth academy to Frank Rijkaard who reeped the rewards of some shrewd scouting from Barca to give Messi, Dos Santos, Oleguer, Iniesta, Bojan and Valdes chances in the first team while still buying players.
It must be noted that Barca have not stopped in their goal to integrate youth team players as Thiago, Iago, Guy Asulin, Crosas, Urbano, Jeffren and Valiente will have a shot at the first team next year. But I expect Guardiola to still buy foreign players, or atleast other Spanish players. But the integration of these young players has come at a cost, as Barca often lacked experience in their squad this season and ended up trophyless. Alot had to do with Ronaldinho problems, Rijkaard’s lack of motivation at times and so on and so forth, but while bring young players into the team, the team suffered a bit.
Inter have a great youth setup, but feature only Mario Balotelli from their youth team as of right now. Manchester United has 8 players from its youth setup, but three of them have yet to play and Gary Neville has been injured most of the campaign. But MU had more players then that over the years, but these players (Phil Neville, Nicky Butt, Beckham, Chadwick etc.) all left because of competition from foreign players or for a new challenge.
And there comes another important factor in youth development. Real Madrid’s academy graduates liter Spains top three tiers of football. A perfect example would be Negredo of Almeria, who is on the verge of a big money move to Sevilla, who was released by Real just last summer. Juanfran and Portillo of Osasuna, Valdo of Espnayol, Alberto Rivera of Betis (Real’s youngest ever player), Cambiasso of Inter, Arbeloa of Liverpool the list goes on and on. All of these players left because of competition in their spots or because they wanted a new challenge. A team could be 100% home grown players one year, and then loose a few players of the next few seasons for various reasons and thus be down to 25% just like that. A majority of those players will leave for bigger contracts at another club, a new challenge abroad, whatever.
The idea that players are static and deeply committed to one team is gone in the modern world of football. I am a devoted Real Madrid fan who would give anything to play for Real. But if I had the chance to play for AC Milan or Arsenal or Lyon I would take it because they are great clubs as well. It has nothing to do with my committmet to Real, its simply they would be great challenges and provide me with a platform to further my career. So many a player will move clubs for the sole reason of a new challenge, but the press and fans accuse him of being greedy or unloyal. Its not often the case. Will you be spending the rest of your life in one job with one company? No, those days are over. 30 years ago that was the case, likewise in football, but now, you constantly move jobs or teams to stay fresh, to challenge yourself and improve etc. etc.
I didnt even get to praise Lyon, my favorite youth setup, or explain how great youth setup teams like Sevilla, PSG, Rennes, Herenveen, West Ham or Fiorentina have produced great players but still are looking to assert themselves amongst the giants. Or how several teams (I am thinking Mallorca, Portsmouth, Cagliari, Valenciennes, or Frankfurt here) that are not big time European teams and fight relegation every year rarely use thier academy players either just like some of their bigger counterparts and how that affects them in a positive or negative way. It seems that this debate over Real buying the best players is best settled with a complicated answer, but one that I think makes alot of sense. Please, lets have your input.
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Comments
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I don’t like Real, but I think Corey is correct with all his arguments. If someone wants to criticize Real, and it seems that Mat wants to, its youth system is just not the right target.
Maybe the biggest problem with that critic is that it’s simply wrong. “just because you guys have money does not mean that you don’t need to have a youth system in place.. look at Ajax, Lyon, United, Arsenal, Barca!”. Well, I looked at the number of youth players who play in the lineup of each team:
Real - 3
Lyon - 3
Ajax - 2
United - 2
Arsenal - none.I won’t even talk about Liverpool, Chelsea or Bayern. The only big team that has more youth players in its lineup than Real is Barca.
This means that Real has a great youth system compared to the other big teams (Corey already wrote about the many youth players who play for other teams too). If this is what football is about, then Real is quite successful.
Posted from
United States

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I would agree with you. I think the issue is that it is often Real Madrid that finds themselves declaring interest or bidding for “star” players. For this reason, people think Madrid are simply buying finished products, etc.
I think its impossible to build a team fully from youth from the Academy. Its virtually impossible. Even Manchester United’s team of the 90’s, which was applauded for its homegrown content, still did contain stars from elsewhere.
That being said, I think Madrid puts themself in a pickle by really going out and trying to sign “star” players, and perhaps it would be beneficial to keep intents like this quiet, and simply try and go about the signings as quietly as possible. However, this in itself, is a bit of an impossibility with modern media.
Posted from
Canada

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I am glad you see my logic in this debate. I agree that the media machine often links Real to players it has absolutely no interest in, like Manuel Vargas, who was never a target for Real but is suppose to choose between them and Fiorentina. Ridiculous
It is also impossible to build a team from academy players, and people seem to think that this was done in the past, but the truth was it never has been done. Alot of academy players were in a team, but most of the time teams were still buying players from other teams as well.
Posted from
United States

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Our boys got too drunk and lost to a Saudi team today, but probably made a hell of a lot of money and got too drunk again because they’ve earned it. Possibly gained some more fans in the Middle East, which is better than making enemies you know?
Posted from
United States

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On another note, I feel like we need to recruit an actual Spaniard to contribute to the forum. I watch all these “Posted from” flags, and never see one from Spain. Wouldn’t it be fun to actually have a someone who is Spanish give us their insights? I say this because I feel like where you are from can somewhat shape your perception of football. For instance, I think the English fans (generally) see football as a much more physical game than say…the Spanish (who IMO like to see a bit more flair and openness to the play).
Posted from
United States

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Well said, Corey.
Posted from
United States

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I predict that in a couple of years, Big clubs such as Real Madrid, Man U, Milan, etc…. will stop training their opwn talent. Instead they will just buy young starlets from other clubs and allow them to develop on their own.
On a related note, Galatasaray actually purchased a third league team, Beylerbeyi, and now sends lots of youngsters to play for them. Soon other clubs will do the same.
Posted from
United States

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Great points, Corey. Especially about the fact that the current coach often determines the fate of the youth players, and when a coach changes, he often attempts to re-shuffle the deck so he can play the kind of game he knows best. Often the youth players don’t fit the scheme (or haven’t proven their ability to), so he looks for, as Mat put it, ‘finished products’ to fill the roles he needs filled. Part of the reason our current youth players haven’t been more involved is more a problem with Madrid constantly changing coaches - a problem we’re all aware of. Let’s hope Big Bernd sticks around for awhile.
Posted from
United States

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Well, the debate continues in Madrid. Calderon stated before La Liga ended that we had 100M to spend this off-season and that he only saw 3 new players joining the squad. Two assumptions, this does not include the youth players, and also there will be 2-3 departures. Who the departures will be we’ll find out soon enough, but I think most Real fans have a pretty good feeling who they may be.
With Garay already signed up the question has become this: 90M for Christiano Ronaldo or 50-60M for Hleb and Huntelaar?
I personally want to bring in a striker either way. If Ronaldo’s signing prevents this, I think it’s a bad move. Also, that still doesn’t address our Achille’s heal, creative midfield play. Guti is a powerhouse, don’t get me wrong but he needs some help, he can’t be made responsible for that entire role by himself. We saw what happened this year, he has a few off weeks and throws a few fits and boom! say goodbye to the Champion’s League. I love Sneijder, that kid’s a stud and I hope he makes us all scream for joy for many more years, but he’s a bit more of an individual play maker. With that in mind, I say this C.Ronaldo signing has gotten way out of hand (I know it seems as though I’m talking out of both sides of my mouth. I like the fact that we have options though), I say bring in Huntelaar, the kid is the second coming of Marco Van Basten and under Ruud’s tutelage he’ll become a super star, but I’m not too sure Hleb is who we need. Can Robinho/Robben continue to handle both wings so that we can instead bring in a creative mid? Or am I wrong about the midfield situation (I guess I’m forgetting about De La Red and Granero)? Any suggestions?
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United States

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musab- many teams have satellite or ‘partner’ clubs. Real has Las Rozas for example, while they are partnered with a team in China and consider Valladolid a partner club for developing talent, although lately its been Osasuna and Getafe who have gotten most of our youth teams. Real Madrid does not put to much stress on these partnerships though because it would prefer to have Real Madrid Castilla playing in the second division every year, which is great experience for youngsters. Unfortunately, Castilla finished in 5th and will miss out on promotion.
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United States

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Also, David Moreno, the exceptionally talented youngster in Real Madrid C has been transfered on a free to Almeria on a 4 year contract, joining the likes of Negredo and Nieto there. Its a big loss for us, but the player refused to sign a trainee deal as he wanted a full contract, which is not something that Real does with 15 year olds.
Also, Juanmi Callejon and Dani Parejo are up for awards in the junior divisions with the likes of Esteban Granero. My bet is on those two along with Alberto Bueno and Juan Velayos training with the senior squad this preseason before going out on loan.
Posted from
United States

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Very interesing post, and a great idea.
As deep as my hatred for RM lies (as a Barca fan), I must admit that my thinking is that Arsenal is the “worst big club”. They exploit foreign law by bringing kids (who are not legally allowed to sign an adult contract in their own country) to England, where they can sign an adult contract. It’s morally disgraceful, and I’m surprised the issue hasn’t been looked at yet (although I hear Sep Blatter wants to fix it).
I have no problem with a team paying out of their arse to get big players. That allows the other team to buy plenty more players. Eg; if RM happen to buy Ronaldo for say, 100 mil, that 100 million would be used to buy plenty of other players which will add more depth to the team.
Also, when a big team buys players off a smaller club, the money that the small club recieves is what keeps the club going. Look at Boca Juniors. They strive off producing their own talent, then selling them for a nice amount. This is the only way they can survive, as they do not have the backing of a billionaire owner. What if a team like Arsenal (yes, I will keep picking on them) decides that they will raid Boca’s youth team. Boca will be destroyed, because they have no source of funds. I think that this really shows that (although I hate to admit it) RM are not the worst big club, Arsenal are.
Posted from
Australia

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