Comments on: Robinho Needs Counseling

By: estoverao

estoverao — Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:57:45 +0000

first of all I just wanted to give 9Championsleagues props, excellent points that I want to contest but I really can’t especially about how Robinho wasn’t to Madrid what ‘Dinho was to BARCA. Though Robinho was definitely Madrid’s best player, as long as Raul is there no one else can claim to be the MAN there unless you come in fresh from winning the WORLD CUP(like Zizou & Ronaldo).

john – thats actually a good point about the defensive abilities of premiership defenders – that because of the futbol culture there that prizes vertical movement, horizontal attacks yield better results. I personally agree that MAN CITY won’t challenge for CHAMPIONS LEAGUE titles anytime soon but the premiership is definitely within their grasp. Honestly, I think ROBINHO will continue at MAN CITY and do extremely well but his legend will only be cemented if BRAZIL win in 2010. As much as CHAMPIONS LEAGUE glory is important the all time greats are determined by their WC performances. As Madridistas we all love ZIZOU for his great CHAMPIONS LEAGUE winning goal but he made his name at WC ‘98.

By: john

john — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 20:31:55 +0000

estoverao – I agree with most of your points, and long before the Man City transfer actually happened, I’ve been worried that Robinho would leave us and be revealed as(or recognized as) one of the top players in world football. One thing that I think Robinho realized, and a point I’ve been trying to make for years, is that a player with Robinho’s style of play (or Ronaldo’s, or Messi’ for that matter) will enjoy more success in England, at the moment. This is due to the typical style of defense in the EPL – which could change now that CL trophies are attainable there, and a lot of young talent is opting for the EPL over La Liga or Serie A; English defenses (on the whole, not just the top four who are, for the most part, every bit as good as Spain’s) might have to adapt. But my point is that part of why Cristiano Ronaldo has looked so good over the past year is that a mojority of EPL’s defense can’t defend a creative player with horizontal ball skills. They’re used to players sprinting in vertical patterns. Look what happens, for instance, when they’re faced with the likes of Fernando Torres, who was pretty good in Spain, and absolutely brilliant in England (those of you who follow this forum often are probably sick to death of me bringing this up!). My point: Robinho will almost certainly dazzle folks a lot more in Man City, especially when up against teams like Stoke, Bolton, Fulham, etc.

But to think that Manchester City will put flowing, beautiful football together in the near future – now THAT is borderline delusional. Maybe in 4, 5 years, but by that time Robinho will likely have already seen his apex come and go, in which case the Abu Dhabi group will be looking for the next big thing. I certainly could be wrong though…

By: 9 champion leagues

9 champion leagues — Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:34:38 +0000

By finishing a play i don’t necessarily mean scoring but assisting or making the right choice, robinho has improved that side of the game, but when he arrived, he was far from finishing any play since he was more immerged in performing fancy footwork than simple small steps to create danger. Im not downplaying robinho, im not happy he left but i keep it “Real” by outweighing the pro’s and con’s and finally assessing he wasn’t madrid’s clear mesiah, by this i mean the equivalent of what ronaldinho was for barca, CR for man u or gerrard for liverpool. On the bright side, robinho is slowly progressing, he didn’t skyrocket at the beginning of his career but this in my opinion is an advantage, he slowly is improving and becoming a better team player, sometimes its better to grow at a small pace than reach a star status at a young age and lose the competitive appetite. Reminds me of zinedine zidane, he exceeded at an older age.

Real now will have to take advantage of their midfielders now that robinho is out, Real is in a critical moment to sign important players soon before man city actually lures more competitive players, names like kaka, CR will only move to a club that can do well in the CL, that’s the only negative aspect at the moment for man city.

By: estoverao

estoverao — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 19:21:58 +0000

First Mad Mac – granted its early and you’re right its one game, my point is that everyone overlooks those type of games for MESSI(he has way more of those than people realize) but if ROBINHO(doesn’t have as many of those games as people think) had a sh*tty game like that, everyone would be saying how he isn’t fulfillin his potential – its just a double standard thats all.

Now the good stuff with ‘9ChampionsLeagues’ who claimed “Ever since…he’s been “finishing” the plays unlike robinho, who impressed everyone with his straight 7 bicycle dribbles but rarely ended in the net” – C’mon man, Robinho has averaged more goals than FIGO did when he was playing for us, the only ones who scored more were Ruud & Raul(and they are strikers not wingers) since he has been there and only Guti has more assists. The whole Robinho ‘not finishing’ is pure Raulista propaganda to distract people from realizing that he should play for Madrid like he does for Brazil, right behind the striker where he is most effective.

I remember his first year when there was a 6 game stretch when Raul was injured and Robinho, Zidane, Guti, Roberto Carlos & Beckham(believe it or not) put on a clinic of beautiful attractive flowing ‘futbol’ – then Raul came back from injury and Lopez-Caro benched Robinho and the rest is the history of an undervalued, underutilized, misunderstood soccer genius. Everyone thought it couldn’t get worse for Robinho and then CAPELLO arrived and boy did the ‘futbol’ get worse for anyone with a creative impulse. Robinho needs to play free, honestly, politics aside, Robinho is leaving Madrid because this Madrid isn’t playing Madrid ‘futbol’. Hopefully, MAN CITY will be his liberation, like NAPOLI was for MARADONA. I know u think Robben is a finisher, but look at his stats, once again, he hasn’t scored as much as Robinho scored last year(someone who you claim is not a finisher) since 2002/3 when he was at PSV. Robben a finisher??, c’mon man, we’re all MADRIDISTAS here, keep it ‘REAL’ – if you are counting on ROBBEN to deliver 2 LA LIGA titles in a row like ROBINHO you’ll be very disappointed this season. They key players this season for us are DE LA RED, HIGUAIN, GAGO, MARCELO & VAN DE VAART. If they don’t have outstanding seasons we are doomed!!!

By: Madridista Mac / Nakanamamboogie

Madridista Mac / Nakanamamboogie — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:06:28 +0000

Re: Estoverao’s comment: once again, I find the comparison to be unfair. It was ONE game: against a team who played 11 men behind the ball. I’m not sure I’ve seen Robinho lead RM to vircotry with 11 men behind the ball either.

Like I said, let’s see how the season goes: if Messi is healthy and his Barca remain awful, and Robinho is able to bring Man City to a CL spot or even to say, 5th or 6th place, then perhaps I will have to concede that Robinho is a better player. Until then, I think that we’re in no position to come to that conclusion just yet.

By: 9 champion leagues

9 champion leagues — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 06:55:21 +0000

Estoverao…i know you are a pure hardcore robinho fan so i dont expect this to go far but i live in madrid, i attened the bernabeu often and ive worked within the team and press for a couple years. I dont mean to say i exactly know what happens in the lockeroom but robben absolutely dropped 70.000 jaws in his latest performances and it was followed by the eurocup’s impressive run. Robinho got injured right when robben recovered from what appeared to be another dreadful injury and all of a sudden made calderon’s 35 million bid look fair enough. Ever since…he’s been “finishing” the plays unlike robinho, who impressed everyone with his straight 7 bicycle dribbles but rarely ended in the net (i know you’ll go apeshit for this but its simply my opinion)

You know, i know we all know that schuster rarely places them together…so why should it be a surprise he wanted to leave. I am absolutely positive robben has been schuster’s main choice towards the end of the season and robinho was fit to play. The brazilian mentioned the CR deal and it makes sense, a simple decoy but smartly used. The club was naive to play with his pride but…robinho needs to prove himself and so far he’s added an awful lot and seems to improve but he’s not what pele described before coming to madrid. The good news is that CR continues to speak about his desire to come to madrid (even stated in the man u web page no matter how absurd it sounds, its posted for everyone to see, well, to make it clear he says its his childhood dream nevertheless he’ll give it all for the red devils this season). And i dont think he’ll sell out for man city since they also eat fish and chips there.

By: estoverao

estoverao — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 04:09:58 +0000

I agree Mac it’s definitely Messi’s team now, what did u think about the start of the Messi era? How did BARCA do with their new ‘10′? U mean they lost their opening game, really? Wow, so you mean when defenses aren’t preoccupied with Ronaldinho & Et’o(like they were in 2006 when he used to come off the bench and work wonders) they have no problem shutting down Messi, interesting.

By: Mac Ong

Mac Ong — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 03:29:27 +0000

On the Robinho-Robben discussion: It’s clear that Schuster wants them both on the team to compete interanlly for that spot on the wings. It doesn’t suit their personal interest t have a guaranteed spot, but it works for Schuster – which makes sense given Robben’s history of injury and Robinho’s propensity to have a drop in form. It’s not so much that Robben is better than Robinho or the other way around, just that last season, Robben was injures for the most part and Robinho’s injury/loss of form co-incided with Robben’s return from injury. This shows why Schuster wanted them to play for the same position. To compare the 2 is not fair. Perhaps with an injury-free Robben this year and Robinho’s ‘freedom’ to Man City we might have a chance to do so and see if Madrid’ decision was right.

On the Messi-Robinho discussion: I honeslty believe that Messi is a better player. Once again, I find the comparisons between Messi last year and Robinho last year to be faulty. Messi was injured for a BIG part of last season – we saw him occassionally come from the bench and that’s about it. Add that to the disaser that was the Barca dressing room and it’s easy to understand why he wasn’t out of this world last season or in the Copa America. Robinho on the other hand was enjoying a great dressing room envionment and was only injured for 2 short periods of time. So statistically, it would be easy (but I think unfair) to compare the 2. One thing I think that should factor into the discussion in a Messi-vs-Robinho discussion is how they are off the pitch. Robinho whines when he’s on the bench (even during Capello’s time), was involved in that Camisinhas incident, and has a history of withdrawing his loyalty (he did that even when he was in Santos). Messi on the other hand only has his desire to play for his country in the Olympics to show for as an ‘off-the-pitch’ issue (if we can even consider that one): other than that, Messi who is younger that Robinho (thus more capable of fits of immaturity), has actually been an incredibly stand up professional who has shown absolute loyalty to Barca.

If you only wish to compare on-field performances, then let’ all pray that Messi stays healthy this year and compare what the 2 do for their respective clubs this year. Remember that Messi has now been handed the ‘10′ in Barca: that’s his team now. Robinho will lead Man City this season: let’s see who the better player is. I reckon it’d be Messi (though I hope that would still make Barca not good enough to beat us to the title!).

By: estoverao

estoverao — Sun, 07 Sep 2008 02:55:48 +0000

First 9championsleagues – “Schuster has been choosing Robben over Robinho” are u kidding me? Robinho didn’t recover fast enough from injury which is why Robben got chosen over Robinho. Don’t act like Robinho lost his place while he was 100% fit, that’s a Madrid press myth that you’ve swallowed whole. Robben had 4 Goals & 4 assists last year, thats it, no really, I’m serious, thats it. Robben hasn’t scored as much as Robinho did last season since 2002-3 for PSV.

Now Ramzi, who I usually agree with – “you cant say robinho outclassed messi in assists and goals last season and ignore the fact that messi spent most of the season injured” Messi’s injury is canceled out because Robinho was also injured last year too, which is why he is no longer at MADRID, until he got injured he was world class for us. Notice how BARCA supported Messi throughout his injury while MADRID turned on Robinho during his injury. Interesting.

“Comparison with maradona is also not realistic, i have never seen robinho carrying the whole team on his shoulders yet,” did you watch COPA AMERICA 2007 = ROBINHO – 6 Goals, 5 assists PLAYER OF THE TOURNAMENT for an average BRAZIL!! MESSI – 2 Goals(couldn’t even score on the USA!!) 2 Assists for a great ARGENTINA team that lost in the final to ROBINHO’s BRAZIL!!!

I only compared Robinho to Maradona because he is in a similar situation as Maradona was when Maradona left BARCA and oddly enough for the same reasons.

“Messi is a better talent” – as of yet I see no proof of that, they are both talented players and Robinho is way more accomplished than Messi at this point in their careers. All of Messi’s highlights are from two seasons ago when he came off the bench. Last year he was mostly garbage. Can u name one memorable game Messi had for BARCA last year where he lived up to his billing? I can name several for Robinho at MADRID if you want . . .

don’t get me wrong I like Messi and he is definitely one of the top 5 players in the world right now, but if its true that Robinho hasn’t lived up to his promise, neither has Messi, and yet Messi can do no wrong, even when he had a way below par season last year.

PS – and to everyone who wants to change the subject away from Robinho, I’m just waiting for Corey to put up something else as well . . . lol.

By: Cesar

Cesar — Sat, 06 Sep 2008 22:38:19 +0000

Enough with Robinho

Corey, we need another blog regarding Raul’s poor performances so far…, is the end near??? or is it taking more time for him to get fit???

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m really worried about Raul…

Take care everybody